Friday, September 12, 2014

El Financial Times explica per què Catalunya és 'un altre país' i parla de Lluís Ballús.

El Financial Times explica per què
Catalunya és 'un altre país' 
(Vilaweb 11/09/14)


El diari britànic publica avui un reportatge titulat 'Catalonia:

another country', on analitza la situació política i econòmica del

país

El diari britànic Financial Times recull avui en un reportatge una anàlisi

completa de la situació econòmica i política de Catalunya. El diari titula

l'article 'Catalonia: another country' ('Catalunya, un altre país') i explica

que l'estat espanyol ha de fer front a una 'implecable' crisi política on cada

cop més persones demanen la independència de Catalunya.

L'article comença relatant el cas d'un cirurgià de Berga que, tot i ser

conscient que la seva població encara és part de l'estat espanyol, ell no

se'n sent part. Ni ell ni la gran majoria dels 17.000 habitants de la ciutat.

També explica que el percepció de molts catalans és que Catalunya

s'apropa a un trencament històric amb l'estat espanyol.

A partir d'aquí, el diari britànic relata la situació política a Catalunya i diu

que el govern català convocarà un referèndum d'independència el 9 de

novembre

A partir d'aquí, el diari britànic relata la situació política a Catalunya i diu

que el govern català convocarà un referèndum d'independència el 9 de

novembre vinent, una consulta que el govern espanyol ja ha anunciat que

farà il·legal. Explica que els activistes catalans, com ara el cirurgià de

Berga, opten per fer pressió per votar, encara que això signifiqui desafiar el

govern espanyol, el congrés espanyol i el Tribunal Constitucional.

El principal diari de la 'city' de Londres també explica que no és estrany

que la separació de Catalunya alarmi l'estat espanyol. 'Perdre la regió

suposaria per l'estat espanyol la pèrdua d'una força econòmica motriu i

d'una font vital d'ingrés d'impostos.'

Pel que fa a la Diada Nacional de Catalunya, el diari diu que serà una prova

crucial del moviment independentista. Explica que centenars de milers de

persones ompliran els carrers de Barcelona.



September 10, 2014 6:12 pm
Catalonia: Another country
By Tobias BuckAuthor alerts
Spain faces a bitter political crisis amid mounting calls for independence from the region
Identity parade: people hold placards to form a giant Catalan flag in the town of Sant Feliu, near Barcelona, in February
Lluís Ballús knows perfectly well that Berga, a small town in the foothills of the Catalan Pyrenees, is still part of Spain. It just doesn’t feel that way – not to him, and not to the vast majority of the 17,000 people who live there.
Madrid, says Mr Ballús, is as strange and distant to him as Paris or London. When he leaves Catalonia to visit other parts of the country, it seems like crossing a national frontier. “We tell each other: ‘I have to go to Spain tomorrow’,” he says.
In Berga itself, symbols of Spanish sovereignty are hard to find. Even the town hall does not fly a Spanish flag. Instead, councillors voted to display the Estelada, the banner of the Catalan independence movement, which now hangs from a third-floor window.
·          
·          
·          
·          
More
ON THIS STORY
·         Interview Mas sees Yes vote as boost for Catalonia
ON THIS TOPIC
·         Editorial Catalonia’s shame, a stain on Spain
IN ANALYSIS
·         Banco Espírito Santo Family fortunes
·         Australia Culture clash
·         Hong Kong Voting with their feet
The same flag flutters from almost every building in town, except the local church and police station.
A surgeon in the local hospital, Mr Ballús is proud of his town’s reputation as a bastion of the Catalan independence movement. Over the past five years he has worked tirelessly for the cause, devoting at least three hours a day to the Catalan National Assembly, the influential grassroots organisation that has led the campaign for independence. “I have nothing against Spaniards,” he says. “But I want them as neighbours, not as landlords.”
Like many of his friends, Mr Ballús believes Catalonia is finally moving closer to a historic break with Spain. Inspired by Scotland’s landmark plebiscite next week, the Catalan government has called for its own independence referendum, albeit non-binding, on November 9. Madrid insists the planned vote is illegal, and says it will do all it can to stop it. But Catalan activists such as Mr Ballús vow to press ahead even if that means defying Spain’s government, parliament and constitutional court.
With political tensions rising by the day, the period between now and November 9 promises to be tumultuous. Most analysts believe the vote will ultimately have to be called off, though few dare to predict what other outlet Catalans will find for their discontent. One way or the other, Spain appears to be heading towards a searing political crisis just as the country’s long-suffering economy is starting to pick up. Some analysts worry that financial markets may come to view the simmering tensions as a cause for concern.
“Why is everyone still so calm about this? I think it is because markets are not good at assessing political risk. They usually dismiss it until they see it – and then they react suddenly and extremely,” says Luis Garicano, a professor of economy at the London School of Economics.
The Catalan challenge has long ceased to be a national matter. Alarmed by the prospect of political instability in Spain, European leaders such as Angela Merkel have waded into the debate in recent months, siding openly with Mariano Rajoy, the prime minister, and against Catalan independence.
Descripción: atalonia map
It is not hard to see why the prospect of Catalan secession, distant as it may appear, is so alarming to Spain. Catalonia accounts for 16 per cent of Spain’s population and almost a fifth of the economy. Losing the region would deprive the country of an economic powerhouse and a vital source of tax revenue: Catalonia is home to many of Spain’s largest corporations and best research institutions. Its capital, Barcelona, ranks as one of the world’s great cities, drawing in almost twice as many tourists as Madrid. No fewer than five of the 11 players that won Spain the World Cup in 2010 are Catalan.
Scotland’s contribution to the UK, in terms of people and economic output, is far smaller. But there is another crucial difference: even if Scotland says Yes to independence, there is little danger that Wales or Northern Ireland will follow down the secessionist road. In the case of Spain, there is no such guarantee. The Catalan referendum campaign has triggered calls for a similar plebiscite in the Basque country, traditionally the main focus of secessionist tensions in Spain. Furthermore, hardcore Catalan separatists have made clear their ambition to recreate eventually the greater Catalonia of medieval times, by drawing the Balearic Islands and the Valencia region away from Spain.
Fanciful as such scenarios seem for the moment, fears of a domino effect are taken seriously in both Madrid and Barcelona. “Britain goes on being Britain even without Scotland. Spain without Catalonia is a totally different case,” says Lluís Bassets, a Barcelona-based writer and columnist for the El País daily newspaper.
This helps explain the vehemence of Madrid’s refusal to even entertain the idea of a referendum. For a country that has spent centuries shedding vast chunks of its territory, losing Catalonia is simply unthinkable. The deepest, darkest fear of policy makers in Madrid is encapsulated in a blunt warning by Alberto Ruiz-Gallardón, Spain’s justice minister. Catalan independence, he has said, would simply “put an end to Spain”.
. . .
Descripción: atalonia chart
In Madrid the surge in separatist sentiment is usually blamed on the recent economic crisis. Advisers to Mr Rajoy see the clamour for independence as a byproduct of economic frustration and predict it will weaken once Spain’s nascent recovery gains strength. Another culprit is found in Catalonia’s education system and parts of the regional media, which critics say have bred resentment of Spain, along with a nativist sense of victimhood.
“All this has created a mentality where the next logical step is independence”, says Francesc de Carreras, a professor of constitutional law at the University of Barcelona, and a prominent opponent of secession.
In Catalonia, activists counter that the region has always seen itself as a nation apart, with its own language, history and culture. They describe a long process of frustration with Spain, culminating in a landmark 2010 ruling by the country’s constitutional court to strike down a new statute setting out the relationship between Catalonia and Spain. The statute, which would have further bolstered Catalan autonomy, had been approved by the Spanish and Catalan parliaments, and was backed by a popular referendum in the region.
For many Catalans the statute offered the last chance to find a political accommodation within the Spanish realm. When it was struck down – by a court dominated by conservative appointees – they saw independence as the only path left.
“Part of Catalan society trusted the Spanish state, and thought we would be treated correctly. But that confidence has now disappeared. Catalans feel their good faith and their hopes were betrayed by Madrid,” says Oriol Junqueras, the leader of the pro-independence Esquerra Republicana Catalan party (ERC).
Amid this swirl of competing narratives, grievances, fears and aspirations, no one is feeling the political heat more than Artur Mas, the president of Catalonia. A relatively recent convert to the cause of independence, he says he is committed to holding a referendum in November. But he has also made clear that he will only go through with the vote if it is legal.
That is a potentially critical caveat, because the constitutional court is widely expected to rule in the coming months that an independence referendum, even if it is non-binding, cannot proceed. Mr Junqueras insists the vote must be held, and points out that his party’s political alliance with Mr Mas and the ruling Convergència i Unió party hinges on the promise of a referendum. “There is one fundamental demand in Catalonia, and that is to vote,” Mr Junqueras says.
Officials close to Mr Mas say he may not be able to satisfy that demand. To defy the ruling of Spain’s highest court would almost certainly provoke harsh countermeasures from Madrid, and possibly split his party. An illegal referendum would also likely be boycotted by large parts of the Catalan population, ensuring a low turnout.
. . .
Most analysts believe Mr Mas will instead opt for early regional elections, with a view to turning the vote into a quasi-referendum on independence. The regional leader himself insists that, one way or the other, Catalans will have to vote on their future. “In a democracy, you cannot stop the democratic reaction of a country or society,” says Mr Mas.
A new, strongly pro-independence Catalan parliament could then be moved to issue a unilateral declaration of independence. But an early election could also mark the end of Mr Mas’s career in politics: polls predict that the ERC would emerge as the strongest party, with Mr Junqueras as Catalan leader.
Catalan towns such as Berga have already mentally seceded from the rest of the country, and no amount of legal pressure or economic incentives will entice them back
In Madrid, these dilemmas are viewed with quiet satisfaction. Officials there have long believed that the Catalan independence movement would ultimately radicalise and split. With the Spanish government refusing to budge one millimetre, moderate nationalists may eventually decide they have no appetite for unilateral moves, let alone acts of civil disobedience against the Spanish state.
A critical test of the movement’s endurance will come on Thursday, Catalonia’s national day, when the pro-independence movement will once again rally hundreds of thousands of supporters on Barcelona’s streets. Organisers say enthusiasm is as high as ever yet any sign that the turnout is markedly lower than in previous years will be seized upon by Madrid as evidence that its hard line is starting to pay dividends.
Even if a head-on clash can be averted in the months ahead, Catalonia will continue to cry out for a new political settlement. Analysts agree that the recent economic crisis has played a role in bolstering the case of the separatists – if only by highlighting the perceived unfairness of the Catalan tax transfers to the rest of the country. But in a conflict marked by identity and deep emotions, more growth and jobs are no panacea. Catalan towns such as Berga have already mentally seceded from the rest of the country, and no amount of legal pressure or economic incentives will entice them back.
Prof Garicano warns that the biggest danger for Spain and Catalonia lies in the fact that both sides are living in different realities. “In Catalonia, people believe they will vote and that independence is possible,” he says. “In Madrid, there is a consensus that this is absurd.” That divergence provides fertile ground for escalation and miscalculation: “Conflict takes place when two parties have a different view of reality – and when both sides think they can win.”
For the moment, despite the solemn promises and high expectations, it is difficult to chart a clear course that would lead towards a Catalan referendum, let alone to the formation of a breakaway state. Yet hoping that separatist pressures will simply subside, as many in Spain’s government seem to do, appears just as fanciful.
“We will try and try and try, just as we have always tried,” says Mr Junqueras. “We will not get tired.”
-------------------------------------------
Tax scandal casts shadow
The announcement was short but the shadow it cast on the Catalan independence campaign is long and getting longer.
On July 27, Jordi Pujol issued a statement revealing that he had kept undeclared money outside the country for the past 34 years. The confession sparked a political uproar and turned one of the heroes of the Catalan national movement into a villain, roundly condemned even by former allies.
Mr Pujol served as Catalan president for 23 years, and, despite his small stature, towered over the region’s political scene in the tumultuous decades since Spain’s return to democracy in the late 1970s. To see him admit to tax fraud was “like discovering that Gandhi was a meat-eater”, remarks Lluís Bassets, a journalist in Barcelona.
Jordi Pujol's admission sparked political uproar
On one level, analysts say, the scandal is unlikely to affect the Catalan push for independence. Many of the most committed supporters of independence were never part of Mr Pujol’s Convergéncia i Unió (CiU) movement – and indeed saw the former president as suspiciously close to Madrid. To them, his fall from grace is of little relevance.
But the scandal is likely to hurt the independence cause all the same. It has already weakened Artur Mas, the Catalan president and Mr Pujol’s heir as leader of the CiU, at a crucial moment in the campaign. It has given Madrid a stick with which to beat the Catalan leadership, and has provided a serious distraction at a time when the pro-independence camp is keen to project unity and optimism. With Mr Pujol due to explain himself in the Catalan parliament on September 22, the affair is unlikely to blow over soon.
Finally, it may weaken – at least in the minds of some Catalans – one core argument in favour of independence; namely that a new Catalan state offers the chance to make a decisive break with Spain’s corruption-prone and deeply discredited political elite.
Francesc Homs, one of Mr Mas’s most senior advisers, admits the Pujol affair has damaged Catalonia’s ruling party but insists that the campaign for independence will go on regardless: “This doesn’t affect the process just as [a Spanish corruption scandal] doesn’t affect the continuity of Spain. Catalonia transcends the Pujol family, and it transcends every individual.”
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2014. You may share using our article tools.
Please don't cut articles from FT.com and redistribute by email or post to the web.
·         Share
·         Clip
·         Reprints
·         Print
·         Email
COMMENTS (93)


Submit Comment
By submitting this comment I confirm that I have read and agreed to the FT Terms and Conditions. Please also see our commenting guidelines.
Newest | Oldest | Most recommended
Mq1 hour ago
If you want to understand what is succed in Catalonia you have to recognize that Spain could change. Then, the spanish parties don't want to understand because they don't want to change anything.
FlagShare
RecommendReply
Enric10 hours ago
In the Catalan newspapers and blogs we are used to read comments from community managers paid by the Spanish government that flood the webs with unfair and unbalance comments about Catalans and the willingness of Catalan to express in a poll/referendum.
They have now reached FT!!!

FlagShare
1RecommendReply
FPP12 hours ago
Whatever anyone may think about the issue, there is a simple reality that cannot be ignored: a vast majority of Catalans would like to vote to show their preferences for the future. Not enable them to be able to express their views in a consultation will only create greater frustration and increse the numbers of those wanting full independence. Any bet that such pressure will subside is as wishful thinking as risky. Why this concern of the Spanish Government to negotiate a way out to this growing crisis? Honour not to "give in to blackmail from separatists"? Fear that other parts of Spain would follow suit? Or confidence that "the rule of law" (read: if necessary backed by force) will prevail?
If a consultation was permitted, it would enable a genuine discussion on the pros and cons, that should be as welcomed as it is now unfortunately absent as the debate is dominated by feelings about Madrid's position against on the consultation - which is just fanning ans strenghtening the will of those in favour of independence.
And, if the consequence of such consultation was that there was a majority in favour of independence - what would be the problem? The Nation States as we know them now are not eternal part of any kind of "divine will", history has shown that they come and go, and there is now an European project that can integrate everyone, including small nations, into an entity which is little by little helping overcome rigid conceptions of national sovereigny into a new concept of shared sovereigny that respects the specificities and cultures of its components. I do think that many Catalans, starting with President Mas, would like to be part of that project without having to pass through intermediaries - i.e. Madrid. Why not let them express what they want...?
FlagShare
2RecommendReply
Remember Lincoln12 hours ago
Why ? Because nationalism means war.
Have you heard about the civil war in Spain? And you ever heard about Yugoslavia?
Could you get informed about Ukraine?
The nationalist gov has educated a whole generation using hate against Spain as a tool to create a new artificial country. And the British gov. has worsened the situation with its blunder about Scotland.
We will regrate all this folly.
FlagShare
RecommendReply
Aleix11 hours ago
@Remember Lincoln That's just plain false. You wish it was true so it would be explainable to you. There's plenty of people in the demonstration who were educated under Franco. Clearly not a catalan nationalist.
I myself was educated in democracy and in a "catalanist" school and NEVER was I given partial information of biased history. That just don't happen.
You wish it was so easy. Don't trust the press from Madrid. They lie and knowing it.Or didn't a newspaper two days ago invent a piece of news saying that Mas the Catalan premier had a heard attack?
FlagShare
2RecommendReply
Isaak9 hours ago
I was never taught to hate Spain, only when I moved out of Spain I realized how poorly it treats anything not Castilian, I wonder why all the ex ex colonies of Spain agreed with that. Were they taught to hate Spain too? Or maybe Spain was treating these countries and inhabitants poorly?
FlagShare
RecommendReply
Randy McDonald2 hours ago
@Remember Lincoln Catalonia would be as artificial a country as Spain.

Also, I would suggest that the American Civil War has few lessons for Spain. Or is Catalonia planning on introducing slavery?
FlagShare
RecommendReply
SuomiReader12 hours ago
An illegal referendum would be boycotted by parts of the Catalan population you say. Then I say they should hold the referendum anyway. Simply count the share of the Catalan electorate that votes in favor independence. If 30% of the Catalan electorate boycotts the referendum, and 90% of those voting cast a YES vote, then that means 63% (0,7x0,9) of the registered Catalan voters are in favor of independence. End of story. No democratic country can refuse the independence of a province if such a large proportion of the electorate is in favor of independence. Madrid will have to give in.
Unfortunately Mas is probably too timorous to launch a referendum that Spain's constitutional court would have declared illegal. Yet I would like to remind everybody, and the Madrid authorities in particular, that if the will of the people is not listened to, this will probably end very very badly, perhaps with bombs like in the Basque Country. It's only 38 years since the Franco regime fell, and the country is still fragile. It would be suicidal or totally irresponsible for Madrid to disregard the will of the Catalan people and end up with a new ETA movement.
FlagShare
RecommendReply
Manel Sanchez i Ruiz54 minutes ago
@SuomiReader Do not worry. Catalans will not use bombs. We are in other world. Sadly, we can say the same for Spain stat habits.
FlagShare
RecommendReply
aeolius13 hours ago
The question is not why there should be Catalonian independence. If the result is that the rest of Spain would not be a viable entity,then the obvious but unasked next question should be-so what. What purpose is served by maintaining a central Spanish government? Certainly it strikes fear into Madrid politicians and bureaucrats. But it is exactly this group, and its counterparts in other EU member states , which has been the self-interested force which has impeded EU integration. Yet such interrogation is the hope for Europe maintaining its standard of living. Small nation-states would need the protection of the EP and further its influence
FlagShare
1RecommendReply
Aleix14 hours ago
New info a bit by bit. They reckon it was 1.8 million people. That is almost a 24% of the population. 
Do you imagine a 16 million demonstration in France? That's de proportion xD
FlagShare
1RecommendReply
Aleix14 hours ago
I just came back from the demonstration. It was huge. We won't stop until achieving independence.
FlagShare
1RecommendReply
JaimeH14 hours ago
@Aleix  I honestly hope that you mean to use peaceful and legal ways of achieving it. I have read signs in photos taken at the demonstration which show worrying and extreme messages...
FlagShare
1RecommendReply
Aleix14 hours ago
@JaimeH @Aleix Lol. I am SURE you didn't. It's easy to manipulate readers who don't know anything and are far away but everybody here knows there's basically no sign of any violence in any Catalan secessionist demonstration. Grandparents, children...
Do you think I would bring my toddler if it would be any chance of violence? No.
The only ones threatening violence are the far-right unionist parties.
FlagShare
1RecommendReply
Lucky Monkey14 hours ago
I dont get the FT
How come whatever applies to Scotland doesnt apply in Catalunya?
I have nothing against independence, but does anyone really think capital (starting with big corporates) and talent will not fly from a new Country without a recognised international legal framework? (EU has been very explicit regarding Catalonia not being part of EU)
There is a striking contrast between this article and Mr Barber conversation elsewhere on todays paper regarding Scottish topic
I have read the FT warning against a Eurozone breakup for years while they couldnt see it coming in their own backyard...
FlagShare
1RecommendReply
gaborone17 hours ago
The whole catalan independence problem is nothing but a monumental tantrum. It is childish dangerous behaviour.
In today's Spain, there is absolutely no evidence of any mistreating of regional cultures or languages. There is more of the opposite: a great respect and appreciation for regional differentiating elements which are seen by most Spaniards as enriching for all.
It might be that catalan language does not get full honours, but that is not due to lack of respect, but rather due to its minority status; and that is not going to improve if CAT achieves independence.
So, why do they do it? The answer is simple: Because they can.
Tragic.
FlagShare
5RecommendReply
Isaak13 hours ago
@gaborone When we are independent our politicians won't be kick out of the congress for speaking our native language, if that's not an evidence of mistreating us for you, then obviously ly we have different standards .  Also, we won't be the third highest taxed area of the world (check the data from Eurostad) Those two reason would be more that enough, but list goes on. 
FlagShare
RecommendReply
Isaak19 hours ago
It's about time all these massive and peaceful grassroots demonstrations carried out by catalans are channeled into the European institutions and turn into political support. For how long is Europe going to ignore part of its citizens that are desperately claiming for independence from a country that does not respect its culture?
FlagShare
1RecommendReply
Don't waste your time with comments18 hours ago
Awww... they don't respect you enough? How exactly? The human tower building, the dancing, or just generally? Or do you mean the cry-baby-victimismo culture of Catalonia that makes Catalan politicians sound like adolescent girls ("He never listens to me...")?
Surely a reason to break up a nation with 500 years of joint history.
Europe is doomed. So many problems to be tackled, so many attacks on our way of life, values and wealth, and here we have the Catalans wasting their time and (considerable!) energy on weakening Spain, Catalonia and consequently Europe (and the Scots and whoever else will next demand "independence" for their village...).
FlagShare
6RecommendReply
Aleix14 hours ago
@Don't waste your time with comments There's nothing more stable and thus favourable for the UE than a state for each nation.
Do Czecks cause any problem? Do Estonians? Of course not since they have their own state. In Spain it's different since the Spanish state was created by the forced suppression of several nations. And thus, trouble.
Where there's justice there's peace.
 By the way, the English should know exactly how Catalonia became part of Spain in 1714. I think they owe us. 
FlagShare
1RecommendReply
Isaak13 hours ago
@Don't waste your time with comments Alas, your comment is the epitome of the spanish attitude of intolerance, disrespect and insult.  Mexico was part of Spain for 500 years and last time I checked they are independent. Is that your strongest argument besides insulting our culture and being apocalyptical?  Anything else to contribute to rich, open and elegant debate?
FlagShare
RecommendReply
Don't waste your time with comments11 hours ago
@Isaak See, there you go again with the whining...Exactly which bit of Catalan culture is disrespected?
As for my strongest argument: please see my first post below. Catalan separatism is the "epitome" of provincial tribalism and backwardish escapism.
If the Catalan Spaniards cannot live in a country with the rest of the Spaniards then truly there is no hope for Europe. Why should the Germans have bankrolled Spain and Catalonia if not even the Catalans have any solidarity with anyone who is not from their village?
And don't start with the "culture". It's 98% identical with that of the rest of Spain plus a second language. I have a pretty good outsider's view on Spain, and the alleged inevitability of Catalan secessionism is a construction of Catalan cleptocratic elites. Sickening, how these appeals to tribal base instincts have been abused by the nationalistic socialists of Catalonia.
FlagShare
RecommendReply
Isaak9 hours ago
Your disrespect and condescending tone doesn't deserve more of my time. Scottish can vote, so should catalans, welcome to democracy. Thanks to the FT for an accurate article.
FlagShare
RecommendReply
Cocoa20 hours ago
The bottom discussion is about the conception of the EU. Between a EU of 25 states which has brang europeans into chaos, crisis, and bureaucrats ruling. Or an option for a real European Union of people. Spain government as its other colleague states are the "old regime". We want a federal EU represented directly by european people with the territorial administration organization elected by the people. 
FlagShare
2RecommendReply
sacr20 hours ago
@Cocoa Well, Catalonia leaving the EU does not look like a good start.
FlagShare
4RecommendReply
Cocoa14 hours ago
@sacr @Cocoa Yes that´s true. The Spanish government has threaten Catalans to kick them out of the Union if they vote for an independence. Who is the separatist?
FlagShare
RecommendReply
JaimeH14 hours ago
@Cocoa @sacr  I'm afraid you are wrong there: it has been the European Union who have unilaterally expressed that they will never accept an independent Catalonia to the Union
FlagShare
1RecommendReply
Aleix14 hours ago
@Cocoa Listen, the Spanish state has a 10% deficit while in theory buckling up. Catalonia would actually have a surplus.

Who do you think is a threat to the value of the Euro? Gallardon was sincere when said that if Catalonia secedes, Spain would have to leave the euro. And that's because it would have to leave the euro.
This will be the write-off of Spanish debt which is doomed.
FlagShare
RecommendReply
NatCon66620 hours ago
Maybe your guy in Berga thinks he is in another country other than Spain. But for me, a guy from Hospitalet in the outskirts of Barcelona, Catalonia is a different country to mine.
Catalonia is a classic example of a territory shared by two peoples or two nations, like Ukraine. Catalans and Charnegos share the land, but since 1980, Catalans have oppressed Charnegos in cultural, social and linguistic matters.
The only way out is a power-sharing agreement between Catalans and Charnegos, but Catalans flatly refuse. Now they want total supremacy over our nation. This is what the international press must highlight: why Catalans try to suppress Charnego Spanish-speaking culture and language at all costs.
FlagShare
3RecommendReply
Aleix14 hours ago
@NatCon666 I believe you either don't know the reality of Catalonia or misrepresent it puposely. The Catalan-charnego divide doesn't really exist. There were plenty of charnegos (which are Catalans basically) demonstrating for independence today.
FlagShare
RecommendReply
Randy McDonald2 hours ago
@NatCon666 How is fluency in Catalan oppression?
FlagShare
RecommendReply
@olgacasado21 hours ago
Hello Tobias, thanks for using the photo of the flag parade for your article. We are a group of citizens from Sant Feliu, where the photo was taken,  organising an image book of the history of our town and would be very pleased if we could get a copy of it. Could you tell us how? TVM for your answer
@olgacasado

FlagShare
RecommendReply
Justin Cormack21 hours ago
@@olgacasado It says (c) Reuters on it - probably best to ask them.
FlagShare
RecommendReply
@olgacasado21 hours ago
@Justin Cormack thanks Justin, we've already done it! We're happy our town appears here!
FlagShare
RecommendReply
Tobias Buck21 hours ago
Re Jaume I, I meant the 13th century, of course....
FlagShare
1RecommendReply
Tobias Buck21 hours ago
Thanks for the many comments.
@santjordi
The reference to a greater Catalonia was to the entity created by Jaume I in the 12th century, and the related concept of the "Paisos Catalans" that is held up by an - admittedly small - group within the Catalan national movement. But it is worth pointing out that thousands of activists still gather every year at the famous "Pine of the Three Branches" outside Berga, which is held to symbolise the unity of Catalonia, Valencia and the Balearic islands. A map showing the reach of the Paisos Catalans also hangs in the lobby of the ERC headquarters in Barcelona, so I do think it's a concept that still has some relevance. 
FlagShare
3RecommendReply
Santjordi21 hours ago
@Tobias Buck 
Sorry to disagree entirely with you, sir.
Jaume I, King of Aragon, (yes as Catherine of Aragon)  did not create any  such "entity". He conquered (13th century) what was named and given the status of "Kingdom of Valencia" under the "Crown of Aragon"  that also included the current Comunidad Autónoma de Aragón, Calonia and  then Majorca, Sicily . . . . The very recent political concept of "Països catalans" includes other territories even outside Spain (look again more carefully  the map, please)
FlagShare
2RecommendReply
Homeless20 hours ago
@Tobias Buck
I agree with you, but the "Paisos Catalans" does not always refer to such hypothetical political entity. It is also used to refer to the Catalan speaking territories, in similar ways to "la Francophonie". That is, to indicate where Catalan is -still- spoken. It does not necessarily imply any intended political union among those territories. Even when used politically, it may dodge such connotations, like when "Iberoamérica" is used without any additional ambition. However, I agree with you that some uses of the term "Paisos Catalans" aim to your aforementioned reunification. 
FlagShare
2RecommendReply
Don't waste your time with comments19 hours ago
Well, there are few things that annoy Valencians more (at least all Valencians I know, and that's quite a few) than being told by Catalans that they are part of the Paisos Catalans. This is actually a very aggressive term, if you happen to be on the receiving end. To Valencian ears, it sounds like "Novorossija" sounds to Ukraninian ears (thank god its only used by a powerless region of Spain, not a former superpower in Asia).
FlagShare
RecommendReply
zol23 hours ago
Good example of how Catalans are twisting reality until it means what they want it to mean (1984...). It is not illegal to vote, it is illegal for a regional president to call a referendum on this matter because that power does not belong to him (under the rules and premises that got him elected in the first place). As simple as that.
FlagShare
6RecommendReply
Isaak20 hours ago
As simple as the fact that Catalonia is recognized is the Spanish constitution as a "nationality" another word for "nation' just like Scotland is a nation, but yet Scottish can vote, and catalans can't. You can't deny the fact that Spain lacks the democratic evolution that has taken place in other areas of the European Union. The will of the people is always on top of the laws, not the other way around, if not, we are not in a democracy. As simple as that.
FlagShare
RecommendReply
Manel Sanchez i Ruiz40 minutes ago
@zol It is ever simipler:  Read spanish contitution article 92, and catalan statute article 123 to know a referemdum or a consultation both are legally allowed.
But you are a good example of most widespread spanish mentality: Word of who is in power is The Law.
Some day Spanish people will start to understand than Constitutions and Laws are written and can be read. And what is in power must follow them. Then you will start to enter  the XXI century.

While, Catalonia will be a independent country in the group of developed -economically and mentally- countries.

Go forward, we expect you soon in this group of countries as well !
FlagShare
RecommendReply
Don't waste your time with comments23 hours ago
Split, split, split... but then unite with Valencia? What?! How does that make any sense?
The economic situation may be a catalyst, but the actual reasons for the currenty separatist hype is (i) an emotional countermovement to the insecurity of a globalised and complex world and (ii) the Catalan cleptocracy's unwillingness to share the spoils of their corruption with the central state.
And the ERC? The blend of provincial and bigoted ultra-nationalism and left-wing populism makes you want to vomit. And they are about to win the elections...? Yuk!
What annoys me most is that if the Catalan separatism triumphs, what does this mean for the idea of Europe, or in fact, any cooperation across ethnical borders? If the Catalans and the rest of the Spaniards, with a common language, and an almost identical culture (give and take a few regional peculiarities of folkloristic interest at best) can't share some of their public institutions in order to create something that is more than the sum of its parts (the entire idea of moving from individual polis to territorial states...), then why bother with a supranational institution.
The message of an independent Catalonia to me would be: Europeans. Let's just roll over, enjoy our little provincial cozyness and ask the Chinese, Russians and US to be tender and use vaseline. (Hint: they won't.)
FlagShare
11RecommendReply
Don't waste your time with comments23 hours ago
PS: The same is true for Scotland. In fact, Scottish independence would be even worse. In case of the Catalans you could still blame it on excessive exposure to the sun (ah, those Southerners who can't check their emotions, etc. and so on...). Not sure that excuse would work for Scotland. And if the Scots and the English can't share a country after having conquered and dominated the better part of the world, and fought I don't know how many wars, together then let's just give up and become Russian subjects directly (working in Chinese factories and taking out loans from US banks), rather than actually struggling for survival of our common European values and our wealth.
FlagShare
4RecommendReply
Santjordi23 hours ago

What do you mean by  " . . .recreate eventually the greater Catalonia of medieval times, by drawing the Balearic Islands and the Valencia region away from Spain". . .

Recreate? Such a political entity has never existed before. . . Please, a little bit more of historical rigor would be appreciated in a prestigious journal as FT

FlagShare
7RecommendReply
Isaak20 hours ago
Never existed? And is Gibraltar Spanish or British? Does it exist?
FlagShare
RecommendReply
sacr1 day ago
It's interesting that this article takes a line (namely, that Catalonia is a different country from Spain and its population is set on independence) and then defends it throughout, while summarising other views.  
And it's particularly interesting how the tone differs from that used for Scotland. For instance, the title of the profile article on Alec Salmond in yesterday's FT was: "Gambler places bet on patriotic game". Clearly a less favourable view from the FT there.
"Scotland: A different country", or "Artur Mas: Gambler places bet on patriotic game" anyone? 
FlagShare
8RecommendReply
Randy McDonald2 hours ago
@sacr There seems to be a much stronger consensus in Catalonia in favour of independence. 70% is the proportion I've heard advanced most often. This proportion, incidentally, indicates that support for independence transcends language divides, since Spanish is still the main language of a slight majority of the region's population.

In Scotland, meanwhile, only recently have the first polls suggested a majority might back independence, and even then it's a slim one.
FlagShare
RecommendReply
JaimeH1 day ago
I understand that the FT wants to profit from the morbid fascination created by this remote (at best) possibility, but we should not call this clearly slanted article “journalism”, and definitely not “excellent”.
The tendentious view of the journalist fails to collect any argument against the independence, or any of the reasons that have nurtured this artificial movement for the last 36 years.
The Spanish Constitution, far from being an oppressive burden (as the journalist entails) is actually the most advanced constitution in Europe, giving out to the regions more power than the “lander” in federal Germany have, or even more than what Cameron is desperately offering for Scotland to stay. This is, funnily enough, the root of all the problems: in Catalonia, the pro-independence party (ERC) has been always an insignificant minority yet has acted as a hinge party, where CiU (until recently nationalist BUT pro-Madrid party) or the PSC (centralist socialists) have needed them to have a majority in the regional parliament. This has given ERC a blank check to shamefully manipulate history books (raising a generation of wrongly-informed, impose Catalan in schools and streets (in Catalonia a shop will be fined if they hang out a sign in Spanish) and act in a worryingly similar way to propaganda-style extremists.
This has raised generations of extremists since then, most of which are descendants of the poor Andalusian and Extremaduran immigrants they so much despise. If you add the economic crisis to this, you get the perfect Molotov cocktail. It is critical to say that the uneven redistribution of taxes is part of the solidarity system whereby richer regions pay more than poorer regions to help the latter improve. Here, the region of Madrid or the Balearic islands contribute far more than Catalonia and don’t complain about it. But, naturally, economic discomfort provide the perfect scenario for radicalisms to flourish.
Catalonia is as inherent to Spain as much as Spain is inherent to Catalonia, given that Spain was formed by the union of Castille and Aragon (of which Catalonia was part) over 5 centuries ago.
I invite the readers to go to Madrid (beautiful city I occasionally visit for work) and to look for any anti-Catalan signs. They will not find any, and Catalan friends of mine living in Madrid and abroad (clearly less ill-minded and more open) actually admit that there is far more that Catalans have in common with the rest of Spain, than differences between them.
I walked into a bunch of people at Greenwich park in London last weekend who set up a symbolic urn for Europeans to “vote” and give their opinion. I asked them why then did they not want allow the rest of Spain (also Europeans) to have their say (one of the reasons why the referendum is unconstitutional). He had no answer.
FlagShare
6RecommendReply
JordiVidal23 hours ago
@JaimeH Castille physically and mentally engulfed all of Spain, except Catalonia. And has ever since  unsuccesfully tried to engulf the Catalans to become unrecognizable , ERASING their language and IDENTITY. The catalans are FED UP of their dirty, undemocratic, political and economic practices. We tried but finally we decided there is no decent room for us in Spain, and we try to say it by DEMOCRATIC and PEACEFULL methods. If we do not give up, everybody privetely agrees that we will succeed.
FlagShare
5RecommendReply
JaimeH23 hours ago
@JordiVidal @JaimeH  Sorry but I cannot agree with that. Regional culture in any region of Spain which you visit is flourishing: I went to Galicia over last winter and was fascinated by how the local and central governments promote their charming culture, language and identity.
The fact alone that Spain has 5 official languages indicates this. Spain embraces cultural diversity like no other country in the world.
I suggest you stop reading the ill-minded pamphlets distributed by local extremists in Catalonia and invite you to take a step back and see the big picture.
FlagShare
6RecommendReply
XuloChavez23 hours ago
@JaimeH @JordiVidal I am from Galicia, and lived in Barcelona for about a year. In my opinion the one big difference between local culture and language in Galicia and Catalonia is the fact that in Galicia we don't use it as a political banner or mark of distinction against the rest of Spain, we simply use it, and that's why it generates sympathy rather than rejection (I'm generalising and simplifying a lot here, but I'd say this is the essential difference). This is probably because Galicia has always been much poorer than the rest of Spain, and so we don't have a feeling of superiority with regards to the rest of the country (sadly the same cannot be said for Catalonia, and I had enough personal experiences of it to stand by this). 
Another important difference is that the majority of people in Galicia recognizes that Galician is a minority language, which does not have and _cannot_ have the the same status as Spanish, much in the same way as most people in Spain recognize that Spanish does not have the status of English. Again not the same can be said about Catalonia: a common complaint is that majority of newspapers (based in Madrid and covering the whole of Spain) is written in Spanish - should we complain that the FT is written in English?


FlagShare
8RecommendReply
Isaak20 hours ago
Are you aware that international law establishes "that nations, based on respect for the principle of equal rights and fair equality of opportunity, have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status with no external compulsion or interference" and that the Spanish constitution acknowledges Catalonia as a Nation? Why are you ignoring this little detail?
FlagShare
RecommendReply
sacr19 hours ago
@Isaak Well, if you start quoting the Spanish Constitution, then you could probably quote the bits according to which referendums on the Spanish state should be held at Spanish level.
FlagShare
RecommendReply
Isaak19 hours ago
Funny how most of my comment revolves about international law but it seems you haven't seen it and prefer to talk about the Spanish law. You guys need to get out of yourselves and open to the world having a more constructive debate. The international and European laws are above a Spanish constitution, which was written under saber rattling.
FlagShare
RecommendReply
JaimeH18 hours ago
@Isaak  Let's have a referendum then too for Val d'Aran or other minor independentist movements within Catalonia alone. Following your logic, wouldn't that need to be permitted too? Where is the limit?
Holding a referendum only of Catalans imply that other Spaniards are not equal enough to decide the future of their own country. How is that democratic??
If you want to hold a referendum only for your people, you can do it, but Spaniards will probably kindly ask you to look for somewhere else to establish your country, not Spanish soil.
FlagShare
1RecommendReply
Isaak11 hours ago
Spanish soil? Catalonia has been there, and Barcelona way before Spain existed. The Spanish flag, created it 1758, does not own anything. Was Gibraltar Spanish soil? Mexico? Philippines ? You guys have an unmovable, medieval view of the world, It's sad because in your dialectical intransigence and lack of empathy lies within the seed of violent conflict. If vall d'aran wants independence I couldn't care less. Who am I and why would I stop them?
FlagShare
RecommendReply
sacr17 hours ago
@Isaak I thought that the definition of Catalonia as a "nation" was a rather important part of your argument, otherwise it collapses. International and European law do not define Catalonia as a "nation".
What's more, the EU treaties have been signed by "Spain" and not by any subdivision of it. Similarly, the UN, OECD, IMF, recognise "Spain" as a member, but not Catalonia. 
Need I go on?

FlagShare
RecommendReply
Isaak9 hours ago
No thanks. At the end of the day everything boils down to the Scottish nation being able to vote and the catalan one forbidden from doing so. Spain's PR is going to have to fight a bad image for years to come. And the UK, a lesson in peace-building and conflict resolution. No wonder Spain has a horrible reputation in South America and England and excellent relationship with its commonwealth. Spain doesn't seem to learn a lesson.
FlagShare
RecommendReply
Manel Sanchez i Ruiz32 minutes ago
@sacr @Isaak Then, if I has been not miscounted Spain had 7 referendums -all called by Madrid's govt. - , on which 5 of them were held only in a part Spain.
Therefore, for you, 71% of referedums called by Madrid's govt has been done violating the constitution.
You are briiliant !!
FlagShare
RecommendReply
@MgLapetra14 hours ago
@JaimeH Thank you very much for reminding FT journalists a little bit of the Spanish History. I wouldn't expect Catalan separatists to be aware of it, they have long being indoctrinated by their own fake illusions, but I do expect from a well-known international source of information to be informed and not just "retweet" partial, biased and unfounded propaganda.




No comments:

Blog Archive